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Unregistered(d) |
Dave's New Prospect Thread |
Lead | |
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The bad news, is that in hiot stove evaluations by the pros, the Giants farm system is going to stink on ice. Entering the season the Giants were viewed as somewhere between the 9th and 12th most valuable farm, despite the absence of top end position players. But most of the Giants top prospects either graduated to the majors, were traded, were injured or just plain under performed in the first half, and though the 03 draft was prety decent, it wasn't enough to ompletely restock the system and the overall impression is still that the farmmoved backwards this year. So far, the re-established latin america academy has turned out nothing that knocks off your socks and is under funded by about 4-5 mil in thier talent acquisition budget, (though it must be admitted that the money would have just been wasted until the academy was really established) and development of young players is hampered by the absence of an advanced rookie league team- the way college players are being sent to the sally league, 18-19 year olds are just over matched.
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Unregistered(d) |
Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Dobbsie,
It's great to see the thread locked and waiting to be loaded. I can't wait for Dave, Danny, and the others to weigh in.I agree with your assessment on the need to expand the farm system. Do we realistically have the money to do so? cbs |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Dobbsie,
Thanks for uplifting information. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Who was that catcher we picked up in the '03 draft? That guy looked pretty darn solid to me, in what I saw of him in the mlb.com "draft preview" videos.....
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clerks420 |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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From Dobbsie:
Quote: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega."- Mallrats
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Thanks for uplifting information.
It isn't al that bleak Joe, it's just that the pundits aren't going to think too highly of the farm. Frst off, it is easier for them to evaluate position players than pitchers, and our farm is pitching heavy. Most of the injuries (exception Foppert) were early season, and the guys were back to pitching at the end, like Clark and Liriano. Many of the underperformers like Bonser and Lowry showed much better stuff at AA/ML than at AA, lending some whieght to the arguement that they really weren't into pitching in snow early on. Also, there were a number of former high draft picks that rose from the dead this year, like Hennessey and Treadway, but shaking off the rust didn't help thier stats any. Some guys like Torcato distinctly unsder performed, but more of the drop off in rating is circumstancial rather than systematic. So in conclusion, the point of my earlier post was not that the farm stinks, but that it isn't going to review well. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Hey, I got a question for you......
My co-worker told me that Mark Prior was a #2 overall draft pick, and said that the team (?) who had the number one pick took a high school catcher instead. So the question is....who was the high school catcher, where is he now, and how stupid does that team feel for taking him over Prior? ![]() |
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Bleacher140 |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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SS:
The catcher was Joe Mauer and he's one of the top prospects in the minors - he was in AA last season and hit .341 with .400 OBP and .453 Slugging with only 3 errors in 60 games - He was also a native Minnesotian - it seems like the Twins are taking their time in bringing him up because not only is the baseball education of a high school prospect a very slow process but they've got 2 capable catchers in the Majors with AJ Pierzynski (27 years old) and Matt LeCroy (28 years old) - they've got a wealth of catchers in that organization..... the reason the Twins passed on Mark Prior was because it would have taken $10M to sign him which the Cubs did willingly..... which brings us to the ultimate question..... would the Giants spend that kind of money on a draft pick? I think not. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Thanks Bleacher, I knew one of you would know the answer.
Quote: Are you suggesting that the Giants will soon be picking in the Top Five? ![]() |
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Vit D |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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SS,
Actually, Mauer was just named Baseball America's Minor League Player of the Year. It is hard to imagine him being any better than Prior, but all signs point to him being a very, very good player in the future. D |
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sfgiantdave |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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"Are you suggesting that the Giants will soon be picking in the Top Five?"
It will not make a difference if they have a top 5 draft pick or not. In 1997 the Giants had the #4 draft pick and Sabean picked a pitcher named Joe Foentant (spelling may be wrong). Later in the first round other teams picked players by the names of Vernon Wells, Eric Chavez, Lance Berkman, and CC Sabathia. It doesn't matter if you have a top 5 pick if you can't draft right. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have one of these players? One of them could have been ours in 1997! |
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Bleacher140 |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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it was Jason Grilli as the #4 pick in the 1997 draft and he was traded 2 years later, along with Nate Bump to Florida for Livan Hernandez.
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sfgiantdave |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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My bad on that but still we could have had Vernon Wells, Eric Chaves, Lance Berkman, or CC Sabathia.
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
Quote: Well, Sabathia was a 98 draft, so he isn't relevant. Chavez was a 96 draftee so he isn't relevant either. In 1997 the farm system Sabes inherited had no rookie league team and no low A team, so HS prospects were pretty much out of the question, since they couldn't go direct to the Cal league, so there goes Vernon Wells. So the only 1 of 4 draftees relevant to your assertion is Lance Berkman, and seeing as he went 16th, and seeing s Steve Grilli's son was rated one of the top 10 players in the draft class, it is pretty obvious that Sabes wasn't alone in misjudging his ultimate ceiling. Not that Sabes had much to do with the 97 draft evaluation anyway since he didn't start putting his player evaluation people into place until that summer so he had to rely on Rosen's people's evaluations. |
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sfgiantdave |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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I haven't seen the draft lists for a while so I was going by memory is there a link where I can see the first round of the 1997 draft? Since my memory is off a bit I would like to see what the truth really is.
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Yeah, baseball america pretty much archives everything these days, just click on draft and go down to the bottom. For your viewing pleasure, I cut and pasted 97 for ya:
1997 1. Matt Anderson, rhp, Tigers $2,500,000 2. J.D. Drew, of, Phillies Did not sign 3. Troy Glaus, 3b, Angels 2,000,000 4. Jason Grilli, rhp, Giants 1,875,000 5. *Vernon Wells, of, Blue Jays 1,600,000 6. *Geoff Goetz, lhp, Mets 1,700,000 7. Dan Reichert, rhp, Royals 1,450,000 8. *J.J. Davis, of, Pirates 1,675,000 9. *Michael Cuddyer, 3b, Twins 1,850,000 10. *Jon Garland, rhp, Cubs 1,325,000 11. Chris Enochs, rhp, Athletics 1,204,000 12. Aaron Akin, rhp, Marlins 1,050,000 13. Kyle Peterson, rhp, Brewers 1,400,000 14. Brandon Larson, ss, Reds 1,220,000 15. Jason Dellaero, ss, White Sox 1,056,000 16. Lance Berkman, 1b, Astros 1,000,000 17. *John Curtice, lhp, Red Sox 975,000 18. *Mark Mangum, rhp, Rockies 875,000 19. *Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners 2,175,000 20. Adam Kennedy, ss, Cardinals 650,000 21. Eric DuBose, lhp, Athletics 860,000 22. *Jayson Werth, c, Orioles 885,000 23. *Donnie Bridges, rhp, Expos 870,000 24. *Tyrell Godwin, of, Yankees Did not sign 25. Glenn Davis, 1b, Dodgers 825,000 26. *Darnell McDonald, of, Orioles 1,900,000 27. Kevin Nicholson, ss, Padres 830,000 28. *Tim Drew, rhp, Indians 1,600,000 29. *Troy Cameron, ss, Braves 825,000 30. *Jack Cust, 1b, Diamondbacks 825,000 |
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sfgiantdave |
Re: Dobbsie's new prospect thread | ||
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Thank you, my memory was wrong before, as it as apeard 1997 was a very weak draft on the first round. Still, it is disturbing that our #4 draft pick was a bust.
I just went to the baseball america sight and it is for subscribers only. Therefore I am not able to view the drafts.
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Unregistered(d) |
Re:Dobbsies new prospect thread | ||
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Jason Grilli turned out to be a bust but not for us. The same goes for Joey Fontenot. Off Dobbsies draft list, Grilli was the top rated starting pitcher in that years draft. The Anderson kid was the closer at Rice. We'd have taken Glaus in a heartbeat but the Angels snatched him the pick in front of us.
For Grilli, Fontenot and Nate Bmp ( all ist round draft choices) we received a #1 caliber starting pitcher in Hernandez and one of baseball's best closers in Robb Nen. I guess its all in how you choose to slice it and dice it but Florida originally thaught they got the better of the deal. Today Fontenot and Grilli are finished due to severe arm injuries and Bump just arrived this year as a relief pitcher and not the starter he was drafted to be. I tend to believe that we got the better of both deals. |
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DaStick |
Re: Re:Dobbsies new prospect thread | ||
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I have a few questions for ya'll:
Of our aging prospects, who's clock is ticking loudest? Seems like we have a few guys like Torcato who need to be dealt or played for fear of losing them and, hence and value. Who's likely not gonna be called up and should be dealt?? I think Sabes may need to consider some trades this offseason vs. only signing free agents.... Heck is Jensen still around?? Hmmm..... |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Re:Dobbsies new prospect thread | ||
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Next year the 1998 draft class will be exposed. Since Torcato is on the 40 man, he isn't subject to the 6 year rule. Jeff Urban is the only high round draftee I can think of who is currently exposed.
As for Jensen, he's around still and still on the 40 man. Being a finesse pitcher, he could re-locate his release point and drop right back into the 5th SP slot in March, or he could be done for good. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Jensen | ||
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Say Hey -
Would the Giants be better served placing someone else on the 40 man roster in place of Ryan Jensen? If pulled from the 40-man roster would Jensen be available to any team to claim or would he only be available as a Rule 5 pick? geezer123 |
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